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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 56 post(s) |
Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight Initiative Associates
25
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Posted - 2014.04.15 16:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials.
This is the worst single idea I have ever seen from a dev. DO NOT DO THIS CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!
We already risk a large amount of isk in just having the labs/datacores/decryptors and all of the copies needed out at a pos. Forcing us to either risk a huge amount more than that, or move the bpos to other much more populated stations that are already overpopulated (that don't have corp offices available or available for anywhere near a reasonable price) and incur a high cost that will greatly reduce production profit or negate it all together, is a horrible change. You as devs do not understand the amount of bpos required to make copies for t2 invention. And you clearly don't understand the organization and the necessity of being able to efficiently access bpos and the time commitment that industry already takes. It is incredibly shortsighted and ignorant of you to assume that it is only a slight amount of isk that we will be risking. We use and need easy access to hundreds of bpos to make the copies we need to be able to do invention. Asking us to risk multiple billions in bpos is insane. And no, I know I don't have to keep all of the bpos I am not using at the pos. However, the addition of moving around the needed bpos from the station to the pos adds an additional step and organizational nightmare to an already complicated system. Because of the nature of industry NOTHING you do with the UI and other new features will change this.
This change will also create an additional hassle organizational nightmare for players who need to find or move bpos around. Industry is already complicated enough without having to deal with moving all of the bpos around. DO NOT take away our ability to organize bpos in one central station corp office so multiple characters can easily have access to them and can quickly and efficiently install jobs. DO NOT make us do more work and take more time to do industry jobs.
Another severely overlooked issue that this creates: This removes the ability of safely sharing bpos by locking them down in corp hanger in a station. BPOs can't be locked down at a pos. This change will limit how and where we can play severely. It forces people who want to play together to use certain systems and certain stations, to pay for spots at those stations and it practically makes setting up a pos a waste of time and effort, because it limits its usefulness. In the culture of eve (griefers/corp thieves/all) this change removes several much needed elements of safety that allow us to enjoy playing and interacting with a larger player base.
If you have decided to do this, as is suggested by other statements in this dev blog, because you haven't worked out how to deal how the slot change affects pos mods, then DO NOT make this change until you come up with a better solution. Because this is NOT the way to make this change happen.
POSes are expensive, take time, effort and a good amount of isk to maintain already. Forcing us to risk a considerable amount more and in doing so increase the amount of busy work that is required for doing industry is not a good change.
I personally have been playing Eve for 5 and a half years. Industry is one part of the game that I greatly enjoy doing. If this change does go through I will have to seriously consider if it is worth it to keep paying for my 4 accounts. Many of my friends who like this element of the game are already talking about leaving because of this. I sincerely hope that you will not go through with this change and that the other forthcoming industry changes are much more intelligently and thoughtfully crafted than this. If not, you will be losing a large group of your paying customers.
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Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight Initiative Associates
26
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:This may be in the cost scaling blog, but will the 0-14% cost increase be reflected in the UI in some way, or will we have to learn this from our spreadsheets? The new UI will show you the accurate price before you actually install the job.
Sadly most manufacturing profit comes to an average of about 5% of the value of the item. This means that depending on the usage of the station, it is entirely possible for the profit to be completely lost. Can we please have a graph and numbers to show exactly how this scaling works? For those of us who actually do large amounts of manufacturing, being able to reasonably predict production cost is essential. |
Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight Initiative Associates
26
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
David Magnus wrote:I sincerely hope that you have fully thought through the BPO changes.
Having to move BPOs around and not being able to leave them locked down, or lock them down in a POS is an open invitation to corp theft.
Removing the usefulness of this basic protection will only encourage people to make 1-man corps and discourage anyone from working together once they have any BPO of significant value. BPOs are one of the only assets that have lasting, significant, and appreciating value. You may think think that adjusting the risk/reward on these will spark more gameplay, but it will only encourage people to play solo.
Agreed. |
Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight Initiative Associates
28
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:On the more critical side, I agree with some of the above posters that having to constantly move your blueprints around will be thoroughly annoying for large-scale producers GÇö it's already annoying enough with just having to collect and use BPCs from all your copying labs. This ties into the issue of not being able to share I/O between arrays, so to mass-produce certain goods, you constantly have to flit about carrying the correct BP for the myriad of arrays you want to populate. You generally already have to set up a given POS for a specific task, but this just makes it a lot worse.
Agreed.
Sadly, I'm coming to understand that these devs don't understand industry. Their knowledge of pvp and Eve in general through that viewpoint has gotten better over the past several years. But they don't understand the complexities, risks and enjoyment of industry.
CCP, hire industrialists to develop and create quality changes for the indy side of eve just as you have hired PvPers to handle the combat side. |
Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight Initiative Associates
30
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Posted - 2014.04.15 18:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:As such, all materials currently listed as Extra Materials will become regular materials instead What's the scope for the removal of Extra Materials? All T1, T2 blueprints? If this affects T2 BPO, you do realize that this gives the edge back to the BPO holders vs inventions in terms of materials savings. CCP Ytterbium wrote:Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials.
We are aware of the significance of this change and do not expect very expensive blueprints (Battleship and above) to be risked in such a manner, but we do feel it to be a good trade-off for smaller blueprints. This is a d_ick move tbh. Focus on the process. It makes research and the copy industry much more tedious as you have to keep moving your BPOs in/out of the station. Scale that to hundreds of different BPOs/BPCs and several POSes, it becomes a nightmare. Instead of improving, you're devolving it into something far worse. This is an inane change, imo. For capital production, copy process for things like ship packs or components copy will be made difficult for small/medium enterprises that run on small or medium POSes. You are effectively asking them to commit billions into a target. With the wardec mechanics giving less than 24 hrs to react, EVE becomes your second work place. You're changing the scenery from "casual" to logging everyday and checking for wardecks. God forbid if you have a RL situation which prevents you from taking the necessary actions. This move will definitely thin out the semi-casual industrialists. So you're happy kicking out the casual players? And what exactly do you mean by "do not expect very expensive blueprints (Battleship and above) to be risked in such a manner"?
Didn't you know that CCP has decided to remove all casual playing elements from Eve? They only expect the complete and total dedication of our lives... |
Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight Initiative Associates
32
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Posted - 2014.04.15 18:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Imiarr Timshae wrote:Khoul Ay'd wrote:
++ Where are all of the ice products coming from to feed all of the coming 0.8 - 1.0 poses that will go up. CCP, you do remember that you nerfed ice mining for the email operators a few expansions ago, right?
Dude, you're fine. Do what you did to customs offices. Go around and take all the moons because there's no restriction on doing so and then sell them. They just removed the only thing stopping overwhelming numbers from owning every highsec moon.
Luckily owning moons in highsec will be completely worthless now... |
Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight Initiative Associates
35
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Posted - 2014.04.15 18:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Additional thoughts on why forcing bpos to be moved to a pos is a terrible idea:
For the players who do industry who want to copy their expensive bpos in the safety of a station, the amount of busy work required is hugely increased. A central location where a player can install multiple types of jobs is no longer possible. The player will need to move the bpo to a different station in system, if possible, more likely several systems away. And if the player does any amount of actual industrial activity they will have to move many multiple bpos to many multiple different stations/systems to be able to run jobs that vary in length. To do industry requires using multiple characters, meaning each location will have to have a corp office to enable sharing of the bpos. And all of this amounts to a large addition to the busy work required to do industry. This change WILL INCREASE the amount of work and time needed to install any job.
The fancy new UI has no possibility of making reducing the busy work to the level it currently exists at or reduce the amount of clicks needed to install a job. While the actual installation of a job may be easier, now the bpo will need to be moved. Meaning it will have to be moved from the station hanger to the ship, the ship flown to the other station, possibly several jumps away, then moved to the station hanger/corp hanger and then the job is installed. The amount of clicking won't change any appreciable amount, only now it will take a lot longer to do!
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Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight Initiative Associates
35
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Posted - 2014.04.15 18:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:theman428 wrote:sorry using your quote here but tippia not all of it is good... this will utterly destroy the ability to make supers and titans. people will have to spend months of time copying BPOs to make these ships since they cannot be produced in a station or in high sec... so tell me how thats good for the economy. yeah no i make supers and titans and i am not at all complaining about these changes, because i spent the thirty seconds to puzzle out how I adjust given these new systems if you can't figure it out you probably shouldn't be building supercaps in the first place
You are an edge case variant. And are in no way representative of the majority that this change effects. |
Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight Initiative Associates
36
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Posted - 2014.04.15 18:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Adellle Nadair wrote:
You are an edge case variant. And are in no way representative of the majority that this change effects.
i am responding to a guy saying it screws up supercap production which is simply obviously wrong why you're wrong is just obvious on its face because tons of highsec systems have research and factories in the same system so that effort barrier is flying from one station to another like once a week, hardly some actual effort barrier
Quote:effort barrier is flying from one station to another like once a week
Like I said, you don't know what you are talking about. This change will give anyone who does normal industrial activities a headache. It will greatly increase the time and effort needed to do industry. |
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